RAP SESSION: GREG AND SHASTA NELSON
Introduction: This interview was conducted in collaboration with Julius Nam, assistant professor of religion at Loma Linda University and editor of Progressive Adventism. Due to its length, we have separated it into three integral parts (scroll down for each part).
Part I - The Nelsons speak candidly for the first time about the affair, the divorce and the road to healing.
Part II - The Nelsons describe the process of their confessions.
Part III - The Nelsons describe Second Wind, Adventism and their connection to the church.
Biographies
Shasta Nelson, a graduate from La Sierra University (B.A. in Communications) and Andrews Theological Seminary (M.Div.), organized eXcite’98 (a national young adult conference), co-hosted the international satellite seminar NET’ 98, and coordinated conneXions99 at the General Conference, before moving to Seattle to help start AnchorPointe in 2000. She most recently served as Pastor For Discipleship at Riverside Community Church, an Adventist congregation in Southeastern California Conference. Greg Nelson studied theology/biblical languages at Walla Walla College, earned his Masters of Divinity degree from Andrews University Theological Seminary and received a Doctor of Ministry degree from Fuller Theological Seminary with an emphasis in personal and corporate renewal. His 26 years of Adventist pastoral ministry included leading congregations in California, Washington and Nebraska. After leading AnchorPointe in Seattle, Greg more recently served as church development consultant for the San Francisco Central SDA church and as Network director and assistant worship leader for Hope Lutheran Church in San Mateo, California. He’s the proud father of three adult children.
Greg & Shasta Nelson are currently leading a nontraditional spiritual community in San Francisco called Second Wind designed to reach postmodern urban dwellers who are skeptical of religious institutions but seeking spiritual experience. They both continue using their gifts of speaking, teaching, writing and music as ways to connect meaningfully with people.
Considering how personal and difficult this subject is, why did the two of you agree to this interview?
SHASTA: When we reconnected with each other and decided to get married, we pledged that we would not gloss over our past or try to hide it in any way. We believed then and still believe that our story is to be more a story about God than us – that God can look amazing against a backdrop of human crippledness, brokenness, and selfishness. That’s the story we want told.
GREG: The second reason is to keep encouraging conversation in the Church community about how faith communities and sinners can relate to each other in healthy and growing ways. The temptation in organized and institutional religion is to deny and hide our weaknesses in an attempt to maintain purity and what we sometimes mistakenly think is a winsome image. But we believe both God and culture value honesty and transparent love over appearance and image. So what that should look like needs to be in the conversation. We’ve obviously experienced a lot of reactions in different ways and we can vouch that there are some responses that seem healthier for all parties than others.
SHASTA: And we also share because while we inevitably receive some hurtful responses, the truth is that there are always several others that hear about us and reach out looking for help, hope and courage as they battle their own temptations. There are many who are pained at their own failures, who have felt ostracized by a church, who question God’s role in their losses, who can’t muster feelings of hope. We believe people grow in healthier ways when they have people willing to journey alongside them and remind them not just of God’s love, but of ours as well. Love is surprisingly empowering ... So… are we a little nervous about this interview? Yes. We’d be lying if we said otherwise! But your courage in asking us and our conviction that hiding in shame isn’t the best answer both help motivate us to continue in transparency.
It was at AnchorPointe in Seattle, where both of you were pastoring that you had an affair with each other and ended up leaving Seventh-day Adventist ministry. Take us back…
GREG: In a nutshell, here’s the story: we were pastoral associates planting a church in downtown Seattle … we had an affair … in an attempt to put it behind us we confessed it to our spouses and to the conference president … we were then fired from SDA ministry. I moved to San Francisco where I didn’t know anyone and Shasta ended up in Southern Cal where she had some family … our marriages ended in divorce. After two years of separation Shasta and I ended up reconnecting for healthier closure or to determine the feasibility of a future life … we dated … we got engaged and married … we moved to San Francisco … we started a spiritual community called Second Wind and we just celebrated our two year wedding anniversary, believing more firmly than ever in a gracious God who redeems sinners and takes our very worst and brings good out of it.
In what profound ways did the affair completely affect and change your lives?
GREG: The most life impacting change in both of our lives was definitely the loss of our marriages and the impact on my family—one of the reasons we confessed was in hopes of salvaging those relationships. Adultery is devastating to the one who does it and to the one whom it’s done against—thus the reason it’s such a destructive sin. It completely rewires one’s emotions and feelings and paradigms on so many levels. In my case, it ultimately led to the final breakdown of my marriage; which is devastating to the heart, life routines, finances, family time, shared history, friendships, self identity – not to mention the sense of guilt, shame, embarrassment, rejection, and pain from so deeply wounding my wife and family and the wider church community. Those losses and transitions were responsible for oceans of tears. I went through what felt like an eternity of intense loneliness that is difficult for many to understand unless they’ve been through it.
How did you find healing in your life together? What steps did you take?
GREG: Most of our healing actually took place separately. For me, my journey initially included becoming a part of a community of people who extended amazing grace and acceptance to me in the midst of my brokenness. After I moved to San Francisco by myself, I called three separate out-of-state friends who I deeply respected and asked them to be spiritual companions (prayer partners). I would talk on the phone with each of them every week. Their continual love, support, encouragement and spiritual accountability were crucial in helping me navigate through my wilderness. I owe each of them a huge debt of gratitude. I also ended up (by Providence, I believe) connecting with a group of SDA young adults who were trying to start a vibrant, relevant young adult ministry based out of the Central SDA church. They asked if I would mentor a leadership team (even knowing what had happened in my life). To make a long story short, that group and the congregation opened their arms to me and loved me in the midst of my painful journey, and ended up hiring me to be a pastoral consultant. That act of trust was a hugely empowering experience for me, helping me tangibly realize that even though the Organization had taken away my ordination, God hadn’t withdrawn His anointing and calling on my life. And through that loving, grace-filled community of people, I began to forgive myself, accept God’s acceptance, and find my place again in faithful service. The shame of failure, the aloneness, the sense of rejection and isolation began to be healed by this significant community who cried with me, laughed with me, and embraced me with their love and trust and belief in me as a person and as a spiritual leader. What a gift! I learned personally what I had preached for so many years – that healing and spiritual growth happen best in relationship with others, in caring, supportive community. That’s Church at its best!SHASTA: But what about before that? How about your encounters on the streets???
GREG: That’s true. When I first moved to San Francisco I did a lot of walking the streets of the City. I began to see a picture of humanity that I had never related to before but now could feel some connection with. I ended up building relationships with about 10 homeless men that I would go find and visit with several times a week. I felt a kind of solidarity with them as many had ended up there because of failures in their lives. We shared a sense of shame. They had arrived at a place of extreme hopelessness. And so whenever I showed up and embraced them, and talked with them, and prayed with them, they continually commented on how much healing that was to their hearts. It helped in my healing process, too, fostering humility, fearlessness, a new sense of connection with people who had truly hit the wall and fallen off the radar, and emerging gratitude that I still had so much in comparison. It made me feel good, too, when they started calling me their “street pastor.” I felt truly honored.
SHASTA: For me—hands down the most important decision I made that shaped my healing process was the commitment to foster gratefulness in my life in the midst of my crisis. I attended a conference on the subject, made myself journal almost every day about something I was grateful for, memorized Scripture that strengthened that desire and listened to worship music incessantly... Choosing to be grateful through that grief was my lifeline. No doubt about it. Singing worship songs saved me as it put words on my lips that my heart didn’t naturally feel. And nearly a year later when Riverside Community Church embraced me by inviting me to pastor on staff, they gave me the hugely healing gift of worshiping with a community. I owe that community for much of my healing for they believed that God could still use me after I had been told in so many ways that I was of no value to my Church anymore. There is only so much healing one can do by themselves— and I thought I had done quite a bit. Certainly I struggled with whether God could forgive me or love me after my mistakes, but the bigger question for me was whether His people ever could. So when that community began to surround me a year later their grace broke me again and I realized how much more healing there was still to be done.
Do you think you're still healing?
SHASTA: Healing is a nonlinear process. You can begin to smile and still have areas where wounds are tender. You simply cannot heal from everything at once—it’s too messy. Nor do the “funerals” happen all at once. It’s not like you’re served divorce papers and just need to go to counseling and then after time you’re better. The truth is that you hear things later that hurt, you have a conversation that heals, you are judged unfairly and it hurts, you celebrate what was and it heals, you watch others move on without you and it hurts, etc. Grief is such a roller
coaster!
Part II - Their Confessions
People still talk publicly and draw their own conclusions. When you read comments being tossed around so casually in blogs and forums, what best describes how you feel?
GREG: I have to admit I’ve battled anger and resentment at times. I’ve been amazed at how people who have never met me or even those who knew me well can be making assumptions and statements about us or the situation without ever talking to me.
SHASTA: Hurt. I am a recovering people-pleaser and it never feels good to have people make erroneous guesses or judgments.
In what ways do you feel most misunderstood?
SHASTA: Perhaps it is for our decision to ultimately marry? I think one of the hardest things for some people to grasp is that we eventually ended up together. Perhaps they feel that it somehow minimizes our punishment or justifies what we did or negates our repentance or causes us to live in sin? It didn’t and it doesn’t. Though we live with painful consequences, our marriage now is a testimony not that sin is okay, but that God works through human mess and still has a way of being reflected. Our journey is what it is and all we can do now is move forward the best ways we can.In hindsight I can wish I had never bonded to Greg in the first place. But regretting that it happened doesn’t diminish the love we felt. People will never know how hard it was to end my relationship with Greg when we confessed our affair. It’s what I call my Silent Divorce— the one that no one wanted to hear about. But ignoring that we loved each other didn’t lessen the loss and knowing it was wrong didn’t minimize the pain. It was messy and horrible. We made decisions to move on, truly believing we’d never see each other again. But the truth is I was bonded to that man and after a couple of years of distance it didn’t make sense to me to go give myself to yet another man someday. My ex-husband was already re-married so that was no longer an option but there were a lot of unfinished conversations and feelings between me and Greg. I’d rather follow through on what we had started than to go start over. I could share with everyone why I think my marriage to him is God-honoring, honest, healthy and one of the best options we had in the shambles of our lives, but the truth is I had to be okay with being misunderstood. Fortunately, we are surrounded by family and friends who love us together and have embraced us despite our history.
GREG: For me it has to center on the fact that people were judging the sincerity of my repentance without ever talking to me. When my ordination was revoked, the Union executive committee made that decision without ever talking to me personally about anything--my story, what my heart felt or what I intended to do. It only felt worst to have word get passed around that I wasn’t repentant. I don’t know where that came from? Maybe because I tended to withdraw instead of going on a press campaign? Or maybe because people linked my repentance to whether my marriage survived? I don’t know … but I do know that that rumor was extremely wounding to me because it cuts to the heart of integrity. The truth is I had risked much in my life because of my repentance. We weren’t shamed into confession by being caught in the affair . On the contrary, we initiated our confessions with the conference office when no one except our spouses knew the truth. I felt it was the right thing to do — something I don’t hear happening very frequently. To then have people make judgments about the affair and later the divorce without ever sitting down with me and talking to me personally (something I always did as a pastor dealing with members who had sinned or failed or needed intervention) was definitely hurtful and painful. In my opinion, that approach only wounds and never heals or redeems.
Some people have implied that it was your confessions that killed you, suggesting that perhaps you should have kept quiet about your affairs to save your marriages and careers. What would you tell those people now?
GREG: They might be right … if our goal was to keep up our image and live with a secret. But we believed we needed help and we wanted to pull in people who could help hold us accountable and be on the journey with us in meaningful ways. That didn’t work, but how people responded shouldn’t negate whether confession was the right thing or not. If you can’t be honest in a spiritual organization and hope for redemptive healing and redemptive re-processing, what’s the point of it all? What does this style of organization have to offer a broken and hurting world?
SHASTA: David in the Psalms says “Let the godly confess….” We often think that the godly need to appear perfect… but everywhere in Scripture it seems that the focus is on being honest, recognizing our brokenness, allowing our sins to remind us of our humility and His grace and power. I personally don’t think our sins take God by surprise... He knows we’re a miserable mess of people trying to look better than we are. We haven’t fooled Him. In fact I think it’s our confessions that save us in that they remind us of our need for Him. I’ve toyed with writing a book on the subject of confession. I think it’s a crucial spiritual discipline that is so overlooked. Overlooked in the sense that without it we’re essentially saying that our image, and what people think of us, is more important to us than the opportunity to admit we need God. His greatest gift on the cross is only significant if we need it and the more clearly defined one’s sin is— the more you can appreciate that forgiveness. Greg and I might have been able to have gotten out of this whole thing without anyone knowing we had ever had an affair. But we did what we thought was right, not what we thought might have been easiest.
How did your employers react to and handle your confession?
SHASTA: That difference is significant. As you hear us advocating the power of confession— that does not mean we think everyone needs to go public with their sins. But people have to be honest about who they are. And doing that in a community where one might be ostracized or mistreated for their own failures doesn’t do much to inspire honesty. We had pastors email us after we were fired and say, “Well now we know not to go to the church leaders for help.” That’s just sad. To this day I still think the best healing happens in community… that’s why we are so passionate about churches having to be there for people in all phases of life—even in their sin. It hurts people to hear it, no doubt about it. But avoiding pain or awkwardness shouldn’t be the mission. Otherwise we have buildings full of people simply wearing masks. We’re not sinning less— we just learn to hide it more. The more honest we’ve been— the more it allows others that same freedom and gift. Amazing things have happened in our transparency. I would argue that our goal as communities shouldn’t be to avoid dealing with that pain, rather we should be all about being a place where we constantly practice asking for forgiveness and receiving it from each other. All of us.
You've openly acknowledged your sins . What would you tell others struggling with this as well? How does one avoid going down the same path to an affair?
GREG: Shasta and I have talked often about all the dynamics of our Seattle experience, both healthy and unhealthy. We’ve learned so much about ourselves and about life. All affairs are not the same and the stories aren’t all about the same thing, but certainly there are at least two conditions that needed to be present for our affair to have happened: chemistry and opportunity. Chemistry can be instantaneous or progressive. But one thing is for sure – when the opportunity exists to nurture the chemistry, danger lurks. For us, it was our working situation – spending hours every day talking, brain storming, planning, engaging in visioning, doing ministry. I’ve done that kind of activity with many other associates through the years and never had a problem or even a temptation. In addition to the attraction we felt, we also had “opportunity” – that is, we spent lots of time together on our own. We fought it long and hard, often being strong, but it ended up being a situation that slowly and deceptively seemed innocent but ended up being destructive. There are so many other deeper questions that need to be asked and discussed about this issue with couples (e.g. addressing areas of brokenness in the marriage, having places of safety and accountability, understanding what dominant need drives us as individuals – to name a few). There needs to be a safe climate in the Church to openly address these issues where couples can deal with them as proactively as possible.
SHASTA: And while I wish that being Christians, pastors nonetheless, would have protected us from sin, I actually think it sort of heightened the risk for us because in some ways it lowered our guards. We were so caught up in our mission that we “knew” we would never cross the line. Our intentions were so good that I think in some ways it blinded us to the danger and risks? But thinking you’re immune is so dangerous. Many of the people that I have talked with who have had an affair were shocked by their actions. They never thought they’d do it. We’d like to all believe that we’re “safer” as Christians, but sometimes we’re in fact more vulnerable. Admitting it is within us is half the battle for protection—it’s something to be taken very seriously.
We can't forget about the other people affected by the affair. What are your relations with your former spouses now?
GREG: What Shasta and I have been describing in this interview is our own experience. Our ex-spouses’ journeys through all of this are equally significant and need to be respected and heard. I’m glad to hear that she’s happily married and experiencing a great career. She is a remarkable woman and the mother of my three adult kids, for which I will always be thankful. I’m very grateful to be enjoying relationships with my children that are deeper and more meaningful now than ever before (in spite of the extreme pain they each went through these last years as they struggled with the impact of all this on their family). They are truly and profoundly incredible people and continue giving me grace and love in unprecedented ways. There couldn’t be a prouder, more humbly grateful father anywhere!
SHASTA: I’m not going to sugar coat it—trust was broken, my marriage crumbled. And then you add to that the fact that he [my ex-spouse] had to navigate it under huge amounts of publicity and loss of his church, his dreams. My heart still aches for the damage I initiated. I am grateful that we have been in touch, exchanged forgiveness and wished each other best. But this is no Pollyanna story where Greg and I are trying to pretend that everything is “fixed.” Regardless of how happy and fulfilled our ex-spouses ever feel doesn’t make what happened any less painful or wrong.. And we will always ache for the impact that our choices had on them.
In one or two sentences, what exactly is Second Wind? Some have asked whether it's a church, a support group, a spiritual club, or something else.
GREG: We intentionally chose not to use the word “church” since so many in our audience are extremely anti-church and anti-organized religion. So we call ourselves a spiritual community; one that is passionate about intentionality with spiritual growth; which means being a safe place where people support each other as they learn to live in alignment with their values and learn what it means to love extravagantly and serve unselfishly ourselves, others, God, and the planet. That’s our agenda for each other but with freedom to have the journey look differently for every one.
There are people who think Second Wind is nothing more than a support group that has no real belief system and therefore shouldn’t be taken seriously.
SHASTA: Well, there’s certainly nothing wrong with having a support group – churches need to be more supportive and caring and nurturing communities, for sure! But Second Wind’s values and core beliefs and corresponding methodology put it right in the heart of biblical context.
GREG: Here’s our guiding paradigm: Jesus summarized all the teachings of God’s Word (the Law and the Prophets) as loving extravagantly God and others as yourself (Matthew 22:36-40). He said everything boiled down to those two values. His closest disciple, John, in his letter to the churches, took that one step further (1 John 4:7-8, 11-12, 17): God is love and where love is, God is. So people may not even “know” God; that is, they may not be able to even define God or may not even think they believe in God. But if they are living “love,” the kind John described Jesus exhibiting… self-sacrificing, unselfish service to others…, they are in fact “in” God and God is “in” them. Jesus took that to a final step in Matthew 25 when He concluded that there will be people invited into the Kingdom on the Judgment Day who don’t even know Jesus or have not even confessed Him as Savior. How? Because they unselfishly “loved” (served) the least of these by giving a drink of cold water to the thirsty, clothing the naked, visiting the imprisoned. So apparently genuine discipleship is not exclusively teaching people the 28 fundamental beliefs, however important those are (and I don’t denigrate them in the least). Second Wind’s mission is to a unique audience – people who have given up on traditional church, who resist imposed dogma and the “I know what’s best for you” approach, who are not “believers” in the Christian sense and who do not give the Bible ultimate authority, but who are seeking deeper spirituality. Our journey is to help people like this experience the heart of faith - how to love God and others more extravagantly and serve God and others more unselfishly. What does that look like and how can that happen? That’s our curriculum- very thoughtful, very experiential, very inclusive, and very intentional. We believe that’s the heart of God and really is the heart of biblical spirituality. And we’re finding many unique, nontraditional ways with which to do it all.
How are you modeling the behavior and what are some practical examples of how Second Wind loves?
SHASTA: Meaningful service to the City is one of the ways we’re learning how to live unselfishly and love extravagantly, just like Jesus did. So we volunteer at Comida de la Grupo – an organization that serves food to the immigrant/refugee families in the
How did you come up with the idea of creating Second Wind?
SHASTA: We have both given our entire lives to ministry. We feel called, gifted and passionate for helping people see God in meaningful ways. Our education, our experiences and our dreams have all been fueled by that calling. Committing a sin doesn’t take that stuff away. In fact, we found that it intensified it. When you have seen how weak you can be and how strong of a God you serve... When you encounter the kind of grace that transforms your life in the ways we have (which sounds good but hurts like hell) we actually emerged from that with an even greater desire to connect people to the God we had experienced. Second Wind is our way of saying to God that we still believe His promise that He can use us, sinners that we are, to make a difference in His Kingdom. Second Wind is a place of second chances— a place for people who have given up on their picture of God, their experience of church or their own personal self identity— we are about allowing God to blow His transforming wind into people and places that hunger for Him.
In what specific ways is God using Second Wind and how does Second Wind minister to you both personally?
GREG: Shasta and I have said to each other many times that even if no one else was coming to Second Wind, we would want something like this for ourselves– a place that’s so open-minded as well as so passionate about making a difference in people’s lives, a place where it’s okay to ask any question about faith and life, a place where people can express doubts, anxieties, uncertainties, struggles without being labeled a heretic or a simpleton or a faithless backslider, a place that chooses to major on the majors rather than the minors, a place of complete inclusion and acceptance where people can grow and become transformed into the people they really want to be. It’s exciting to see people coming and experiencing this in reality – a breath of fresh air.
Do you serve Second Wind full-time? How do you support yourselves financially?
SHASTA: Second Wind pays our rent so that we can afford to live and minister in San Francisco. That is no small gift— we are incredibly grateful. Greg serves our group by pouring his time and energy and wisdom into our groups’ spiritual growth, service activities in the City and our Sabbath time together. Our passion would be to do it together; to have that synergy, creativity and collective gifts being given to this dream. Unfortunately we don’t have that kind of funding so I work as the general manager of a local company in order to help finance our lives. I am grateful for the opportunity I have to make a living and to support this dream, but it is heartbreaking to not be doing what I love the most.
What connections do you maintain with the Adventist church?
SHASTA: Our heritage. Our dreams. Our friends. We both have many family members and friends who are both members and employees of the organization. We like to hear what’s going on… sometimes it hurts to feel left out, but ultimately we pray for and appreciate the progress that continues.
Whether it's feasible or not, do you wish you could return to Adventist pastoral ministry?
GREG: I’m a fifth generation Adventist, fourth generation Adventist pastor. It’s all I ever wanted to do. All I was trained to be. All I ever did with passion. It is a career that both of us were wired to do with our gift mixes, our skills and our temperaments. I naturally miss it. I recognize that it’s all I ever really knew so it’s hard for me sometimes to imagine what God can do outside of the box. Interestingly enough we have each ministered as direct hires by local Adventist congregations (since our affair) where we ministered with significance so I don’t buy the fact that because of our sin we can no longer be trusted as pastoral leaders by a congregation or used by our God. But the politics of this church prevent me from getting my hopes up that we will ever be employees again. We hear from time to time from church leaders that outside of a divine miracle, we will never be Adventist pastors again. So what would you do if that were being conveyed to you?? Lay down your arms and quit? Hide in a little corner somewhere and refuse to engage? As the prophet Jeremiah once emoted, you can’t squelch the fire that burns in your bones. So my paradigm has had to encompass the fact that God has a lot of work to be done that is outside the walls and politics of the Seventh-day Adventist church as much as we love her, reminisce about her and wish her the best.
What do you see as the greatest challenges that Adventism faces as it seeks to minister to urban, postmodern groups of people?
SHASTA: Speaking from personal experience I’d say it’s the age-old issue of how we treat each other. I have yet to meet someone who doesn’t want to be loved and accepted. It comes back to the good ol’ verse that says “they will know we are Christians by our love.” I’ve met many who think religion is a waste of time, who believe God doesn’t exist and who think Christians are judgmental—but I haven’t encountered anyone who doesn’t long for meaningful community. It doesn’t matter if the church is “right” if we end up pushing people away. When you look at urban, postmodern people—I don’t know if the core is that different from all of us—we want to belong. We crave being a part of a safe and inclusive community that welcomes all people. None of us think we’re perfect but we still need to believe we can be loved for who we are.
The huge struggle comes down to whether we’re here to keep religion “pure” or whether we’re called to embrace the outcasts, be a friend of sinners and touch those who are unclean. Those are two massively different missions that will affect every decision made by any organization.
What do you see as the greatest treasure in Adventism?
GREG: I have always said that Adventism’s holistic paradigm of life is a huge gift to human thought and experience. We’ve found that this a very appealing concept among postmodern urban dwellers – seeing all of life as inter-related and thus equally valuable and deserving of profound respect, admiration and tender yet bold attention. Second Wind meets every Saturday morning. And the idea of carving out sacred space (“Sabbath”) every seven days to more fully encounter God and each other has become a very meaningful experience for our audience. The Sabbath, in my view, is that all-encompassing doctrine that provides not only the theological/philosophical framework for this view, but also the experiential empowering of it. What a gift to 21st century people!
Unfortunately, so much of Adventist apologetics revolves around proof-texting this doctrine, building a case for which day is God’s Day and how that will be the great final test. And though all of that may be important, it alone misses the experiential dimension that is so attractive to today’s culture. The Sabbath is a touchstone of spirituality – it encompasses the whole experience of grace and the imperative of grace – “as you have been loved, so love the world.” The result is a community of people who love extravagantly and serve unselfishly themselves, all others, God and this planet. What a treasure!
SHASTA: The truth is that we love the church and can find much to affirm. Though we and the Church have both disappointed each other in different ways, that doesn’t diminish the value on either side. And thank you Marcel and Julius for your invitation to share a bit of what God has done in our lives through the journey. We can wish it had been prettier, but we’re grateful that His light can still shine through broken vessels.
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